F**king Liberals.....
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:08 am
#17347- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
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"Baby Storm is four months old; it lives in Toronto, Canada, and is as cute as can be. Wait -- "it"?
That's right. Storm's parents are keeping the infant's sex a secret from everyone but the immediate family and a handful of confidants in an effort to provide the child freedom to eventually decide on a gender identity, without the influence of societal expectation and narrow, traditional gender roles. Instead of dolls for girls and trucks for boys, Kathy Witterick and David Stocker have decided that "anything goes."
mother f**king pieces of mother f**king shit
there are a few undeniable truths in this world...
1. if you're reading this, you were born
2. if you're reading this, one day, you will die
3. if you're reading this, you have genitals
what comes with those genitals, is a hormone releasing endocrine system that dictates a LOT of your instinctual behavior meaning, your gender is an overwhelming influence on your personality. Taking that away from a child, is taking them away from themselves.
they've gone too far
you want to raise a man that isn't an asshole, go right ahead (and good luck with that), you want to raise a stereotype bending child...DO IT
let's not get crazy though
f**k these people
I'm offended
"Baby Storm is four months old; it lives in Toronto, Canada, and is as cute as can be. Wait -- "it"?
That's right. Storm's parents are keeping the infant's sex a secret from everyone but the immediate family and a handful of confidants in an effort to provide the child freedom to eventually decide on a gender identity, without the influence of societal expectation and narrow, traditional gender roles. Instead of dolls for girls and trucks for boys, Kathy Witterick and David Stocker have decided that "anything goes."
mother f**king pieces of mother f**king shit
there are a few undeniable truths in this world...
1. if you're reading this, you were born
2. if you're reading this, one day, you will die
3. if you're reading this, you have genitals
what comes with those genitals, is a hormone releasing endocrine system that dictates a LOT of your instinctual behavior meaning, your gender is an overwhelming influence on your personality. Taking that away from a child, is taking them away from themselves.
they've gone too far
you want to raise a man that isn't an asshole, go right ahead (and good luck with that), you want to raise a stereotype bending child...DO IT
let's not get crazy though
f**k these people
I'm offended
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:13 am
#17350- number3181PC Server Admin
- Location : Florida
I agree this shit is stupid though I can understand in the case of a child being hermaphroditic.
Along with that they are trying to redefine the word "they" as a gender neutral pronoun.
Along with that they are trying to redefine the word "they" as a gender neutral pronoun.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:15 am
#17351- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
just from growing up as one, raising a boy to be a man is a fine line....
if you go too "trophies for everyone", you get a self absorbed lazy child, if you go too passive, you get someone who shakes hands like a pussy, you go too aggressive, you get a prick
being too open on this thing will **** with your child, like trying to train a dog
parents aren't their "friends", their job is to train their child to be a properly functioning adult
if you go too "trophies for everyone", you get a self absorbed lazy child, if you go too passive, you get someone who shakes hands like a pussy, you go too aggressive, you get a prick
being too open on this thing will **** with your child, like trying to train a dog
parents aren't their "friends", their job is to train their child to be a properly functioning adult
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:17 am
#17352- number3181PC Server Admin
- Location : Florida
Sorry, but as a self proclaimed person who doesn't and won't have kids you are basically talking out of your ass when proclaiming to know how to raise one.
Edit: I do agree with you though, it's just not that easy.
Edit: I do agree with you though, it's just not that easy.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:21 am
#17353- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
not implying that it's easy at all, you've got the stress of molding a personality
not knowing how to raise one doesn't mean you can't have a philosophy about if you were to have one
but there's obvious things that can be called that, this is one of them
you all know those times when testosterone makes us think/act like raving lunatics, acting like gender is something that is exchangeable will not prepare a child for dealing with that
not knowing how to raise one doesn't mean you can't have a philosophy about if you were to have one
but there's obvious things that can be called that, this is one of them
you all know those times when testosterone makes us think/act like raving lunatics, acting like gender is something that is exchangeable will not prepare a child for dealing with that
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:27 am
#17354- number3181PC Server Admin
- Location : Florida
The thing is is that there is no "right" way. Every child is different and responds to influence differently.
Gender is something they have found out is not so cut and dry as it once was. They are finding out that about 1 in 2000 people are have extra chromosomes which qualify them to be "intersex."
Gender is something they have found out is not so cut and dry as it once was. They are finding out that about 1 in 2000 people are have extra chromosomes which qualify them to be "intersex."
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:30 am
#17355- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
number3181 wrote:The thing is is that there is no "right" way. Every child is different and responds to influence differently.
Gender is something they have found out is not so cut and dry as it once was. They are finding out that about 1 in 2000 people are have extra chromosomes which qualify them to be "intersex."
absolutely
interesting to think about if that extra chromosome marks the next step in human evolution, too bad we won't be around to see what affect it has
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:30 am
#17356I agree that this is absurd. We've all gotten along for thousands of years ok, why are we trying to reinvent the wheel? Sure, you want your child to be able to break a social mores, go for it, and empower them, but for a lot of people, but taking away something as significant as a gender identity can lead to a long and confusing path.
I guess my issue is I don't under stand what the goal is with this...
I guess my issue is I don't under stand what the goal is with this...
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:34 am
#17358- number3181PC Server Admin
- Location : Florida
Theres science going on now that basically says we have already divided from homosapiens into subgroups.
The mapping of the genome has brought out some amazing findings. The big question is, "how many genome variations can we have before we start being seperate species?"
Theres also a theory that synesthesia sufferers are possibly victims of a rapid evolution of a part of the brain out of sync with the rest. When the brain tries to evaluate the new stimuli it gets confused and starts sending out sounds that the person can taste etc.
The mapping of the genome has brought out some amazing findings. The big question is, "how many genome variations can we have before we start being seperate species?"
Theres also a theory that synesthesia sufferers are possibly victims of a rapid evolution of a part of the brain out of sync with the rest. When the brain tries to evaluate the new stimuli it gets confused and starts sending out sounds that the person can taste etc.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:35 am
#17359- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
we'll know when to split the species when we can no longer reproduce with each other (biologically, beer goggles or not)
who knows, maybe that's why so many women are having trouble getting pregnant naturally
interesting thought
who knows, maybe that's why so many women are having trouble getting pregnant naturally
interesting thought
Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:26 am
#17367- Triple_0_OughtMember
Maybe there is no "right" way to raise a child but there are plenty of "wrong" ways, and all this silly shit these faggots keep dreaming up is the wrong way.
Making the kids think the world owes them self-estem is the wrong way
Trying to be a friend to your kid rather than a parent is the wrong way
Ignoring the fact that boys are boys and girls are girls is the wrong way
Treating your kid like it was worthless is the wrong way
First world problems...
Making the kids think the world owes them self-estem is the wrong way
Trying to be a friend to your kid rather than a parent is the wrong way
Ignoring the fact that boys are boys and girls are girls is the wrong way
Treating your kid like it was worthless is the wrong way
First world problems...
Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:31 am
#17368- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
sometimes I think third world problems make like easier...
"don't get eaten by a lion"
"find food"
"don't get AIDS"
as opposed to...
"dammit, my porn won't load quickly"
"there's no good TV on right now"
"popcorn stuck in my teeth"
"her tits are too big"
(lol, never say that)
actually, I'll stick with first world problems
"don't get eaten by a lion"
"find food"
"don't get AIDS"
as opposed to...
"dammit, my porn won't load quickly"
"there's no good TV on right now"
"popcorn stuck in my teeth"
"her tits are too big"
(lol, never say that)
actually, I'll stick with first world problems
Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:40 am
#17373- Triple_0_OughtMember
lol I'll take the first world problems as well, though I sometimes really wonder how people manage to dream up half this crap.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:44 am
#17374- sharpPUSB
- Location : City of Dreams, England
Someone did that here recently. Kid looked a f*ckng mess at the age of 3
Dont let a 'gender neutral' 3 year old dress its self.
There is a lesson for us all there
Dont let a 'gender neutral' 3 year old dress its self.
There is a lesson for us all there
Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:14 am
#17376- Kaz--MoneyMember
- Location : Calgary, AB, Canada
I'm not saying I particularily agree with this, but I just think....even chisa's response to this is a conditioned response.
....that we have such an entrenched gender bias in everything. That....if you have a dck, you have to have trucks and dirt. If you have a vgina, you need dolls and flour.
I don't know why there isn't similar excitement over families with boys who buy them guns, blue things, trucks, and throw them around in play....or over parents with girls who give them dolls, pink things, mini kitchens and house cleaning artifacts, and who baby and coddle them as though they are breakable.
As a teacher, what I find reprehensible, are parents who impose everything on thier child. It starts with these gender identifiers, then (especially in Canada), it's forcing them through decades of hockey-even though the kid HATES hockey-then casting upon them all thier ideals and shortcomings with the hopes of having the kid accomplish and do everything the parents never did (be a doctor, make it to the NHL, be a model, etc).
To an extent, quite a few aspects of this upbringing is the same experiement my parents performed on me. I was never privy to thier political affiliations. If I asked, they never told me. I was made to analyze the world and find my leanings on my own. Too many liberals and too many conservatives raise the same, without the offspring ever considering why they are red or blue.
That we have a conditioned response to "making a man a man", or "making a woman a woman"....are silly. Why not.....make people good human beings? The problem with this, as Jazz-the-boy found out, are the other people who think that we need these rigid gender roles to be decent people. Instead of being good tolerant people, they are raised with such rigidity that anything outside of the norm, is open for ridicule.
While spending time in Polynesia, I had the opportunity to wear the male Sarong. Comfortable as sht, cool as fck, and....offers a lot of....freedom. Dudes in Hawaii, Samoa, Easter Island/Rapa Nui--big tough mufckers, take care of their sht, family men and all that. Be damned if you'd ever catch someone wearing that here in the summer....not for any other reason than the ridicule for wearing it. What is the objective reason, the self evident justification that men can't wear a dress? What the efff is wrong with a dude wearing a sarong?
Got me.
As long as these people raise their kid to NOT be like the people who are going to make this kids' life hell, then I guess I applaud them. I feel for the kid, but maybe, one at a time, we'll have people who see people for people, and not for what box human history has told us we have to fit in to.
....that we have such an entrenched gender bias in everything. That....if you have a dck, you have to have trucks and dirt. If you have a vgina, you need dolls and flour.
I don't know why there isn't similar excitement over families with boys who buy them guns, blue things, trucks, and throw them around in play....or over parents with girls who give them dolls, pink things, mini kitchens and house cleaning artifacts, and who baby and coddle them as though they are breakable.
As a teacher, what I find reprehensible, are parents who impose everything on thier child. It starts with these gender identifiers, then (especially in Canada), it's forcing them through decades of hockey-even though the kid HATES hockey-then casting upon them all thier ideals and shortcomings with the hopes of having the kid accomplish and do everything the parents never did (be a doctor, make it to the NHL, be a model, etc).
To an extent, quite a few aspects of this upbringing is the same experiement my parents performed on me. I was never privy to thier political affiliations. If I asked, they never told me. I was made to analyze the world and find my leanings on my own. Too many liberals and too many conservatives raise the same, without the offspring ever considering why they are red or blue.
That we have a conditioned response to "making a man a man", or "making a woman a woman"....are silly. Why not.....make people good human beings? The problem with this, as Jazz-the-boy found out, are the other people who think that we need these rigid gender roles to be decent people. Instead of being good tolerant people, they are raised with such rigidity that anything outside of the norm, is open for ridicule.
While spending time in Polynesia, I had the opportunity to wear the male Sarong. Comfortable as sht, cool as fck, and....offers a lot of....freedom. Dudes in Hawaii, Samoa, Easter Island/Rapa Nui--big tough mufckers, take care of their sht, family men and all that. Be damned if you'd ever catch someone wearing that here in the summer....not for any other reason than the ridicule for wearing it. What is the objective reason, the self evident justification that men can't wear a dress? What the efff is wrong with a dude wearing a sarong?
Got me.
As long as these people raise their kid to NOT be like the people who are going to make this kids' life hell, then I guess I applaud them. I feel for the kid, but maybe, one at a time, we'll have people who see people for people, and not for what box human history has told us we have to fit in to.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:55 am
#17383- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
you really need "twitter rules"
ffs
lol
Of course it's a conditioned response, we're not fully rational beings in control of ourselves in any sense. We are the product of our instincts, our biology/hormones, AND our intellect (which is greatly influenced by the other stuff).
I think there's a lot of people who are quite comfortable with at least a small portion of the societal gender stereotypes. I'm not talking the extremes, but how many women do you know that will say "I like a strong confident man"? I know quite a few, meaning, almost all of them. Not one of my single female friends has ever said "I want that soft handshake dude who likes to be the opposite of what society says a man should be".
You can fine tune what you think a "man and a woman" should be, and that doesn't involved guns, dolls, or even clothing, but it sure as shit includes instruction of how to handle yourself in the world versus expectations.
ffs
lol
Of course it's a conditioned response, we're not fully rational beings in control of ourselves in any sense. We are the product of our instincts, our biology/hormones, AND our intellect (which is greatly influenced by the other stuff).
I think there's a lot of people who are quite comfortable with at least a small portion of the societal gender stereotypes. I'm not talking the extremes, but how many women do you know that will say "I like a strong confident man"? I know quite a few, meaning, almost all of them. Not one of my single female friends has ever said "I want that soft handshake dude who likes to be the opposite of what society says a man should be".
You can fine tune what you think a "man and a woman" should be, and that doesn't involved guns, dolls, or even clothing, but it sure as shit includes instruction of how to handle yourself in the world versus expectations.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:59 pm
#17386- chris hansonMember
Chisa wrote:number3181 wrote:The thing is is that there is no "right" way. Every child is different and responds to influence differently.
Gender is something they have found out is not so cut and dry as it once was. They are finding out that about 1 in 2000 people are have extra chromosomes which qualify them to be "intersex."
absolutely
interesting to think about if that extra chromosome marks the next step in human evolution, too bad we won't be around to see what affect it has
The basis of 46 & 2 by Tool.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:03 pm
#17387- Triple_0_OughtMember
Of course, we're all a product of enculturation, i.e. the beliefs and personalities of our families, friends, and even communities, growing up.
But to me there's a significant difference between trying to force your expectations and interests, even politics and religion, on a child, and raising them in a way that will impair them from functioning in society and/or have them try to suppress basic human instincts.
I don't think Little Timmy needs to be a Methodist Republican lawyer or an atheist Democratic doctor when he grows up... if he wants to work at a gun store, vote Green, and believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that's fine.
But when you're handing out trophies to even the little tard who couldn't hit the ball off the stand and you're teaching the kids that there isn't really such thing as failure, then you're just setting up for failure in the real world, where results do matter.
Likewise, whether it's the religious nut with secret longings to be balls-deep in an altar boy teaching that sex is bad - especially if you're a woman - or the hippy dippy that's fine with their little boy wanting to be a woman when he grows up, you're just setting them up for a life of anxiety and disappointment.
But to me there's a significant difference between trying to force your expectations and interests, even politics and religion, on a child, and raising them in a way that will impair them from functioning in society and/or have them try to suppress basic human instincts.
I don't think Little Timmy needs to be a Methodist Republican lawyer or an atheist Democratic doctor when he grows up... if he wants to work at a gun store, vote Green, and believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that's fine.
But when you're handing out trophies to even the little tard who couldn't hit the ball off the stand and you're teaching the kids that there isn't really such thing as failure, then you're just setting up for failure in the real world, where results do matter.
Likewise, whether it's the religious nut with secret longings to be balls-deep in an altar boy teaching that sex is bad - especially if you're a woman - or the hippy dippy that's fine with their little boy wanting to be a woman when he grows up, you're just setting them up for a life of anxiety and disappointment.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:51 pm
#17390- Kaz--MoneyMember
- Location : Calgary, AB, Canada
Things seem to cycle back to the "trophies for last place"....which misses the mark by a long shot. Not even the same arguement. Besides, everyday I fight a system that seems to think that this is a good policy to have up until grade 10, maybe 11, and god forbid 12....that eventually has the unbilical cord severed as soon as they enter university, and then the work force.
This isn't about rewards without merit (as far as i can tell), nor do I think it's about parents being thier kids pal.
I think they miss the mark by referring to the child and an "it", but I hate seeing boys in blue, biys with trucks, boys in sports....etc. Nothing makes me feel better seeing the chick knocking dudes over in lacross, or doing tailwhips on their bmx bike.
I stand by my original comment that as long as parents raise good, respecting kids, who value humans for humans and don't bring them up making them as narrow minded and intolerant as those who make the lives of different kids miserable, chalk it up as a success.
This isn't about rewards without merit (as far as i can tell), nor do I think it's about parents being thier kids pal.
I think they miss the mark by referring to the child and an "it", but I hate seeing boys in blue, biys with trucks, boys in sports....etc. Nothing makes me feel better seeing the chick knocking dudes over in lacross, or doing tailwhips on their bmx bike.
I stand by my original comment that as long as parents raise good, respecting kids, who value humans for humans and don't bring them up making them as narrow minded and intolerant as those who make the lives of different kids miserable, chalk it up as a success.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:54 pm
#17392- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
No one here is advocating a strict "boys are blue (etc.)" attitude, but I think it does a disservice to the person to ignore their gender (and it's biological baggage) and act like it doesn't play a huge role in shaping our lives. You can only run so far from biology before you're wasting your own time.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:09 pm
#17393- Triple_0_OughtMember
Pretty much what Chisa said. I also added the "rewards without merit" and other examples because they all seem to be part of the growing trend of parents wanting to raise their kids in "special" and "unique" ways.
I will admit that I have a double standard, however. I don't mind females engaging in activities and taking interest in things that are considered "male," like cars and guns and video games. For example, I think it's great when a woman enjoys computer/video games. I don't really care if she's running around jeans and a tshirt, and a woman knowing more about current events in football than I do because she's such a huge football fan doesn't bother me.
...on the other hand, boys playing with dolls, putting on dresses, etc, or men wearing make up? Dafuq?!
I will admit that I have a double standard, however. I don't mind females engaging in activities and taking interest in things that are considered "male," like cars and guns and video games. For example, I think it's great when a woman enjoys computer/video games. I don't really care if she's running around jeans and a tshirt, and a woman knowing more about current events in football than I do because she's such a huge football fan doesn't bother me.
...on the other hand, boys playing with dolls, putting on dresses, etc, or men wearing make up? Dafuq?!
Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:43 pm
#17400- Kaz--MoneyMember
- Location : Calgary, AB, Canada
Nearly everything, save things related to penises and vaginas....are social constructs. What chisa dubs "running away from biology"....has been happening since industrialization.
Men and women don't need to be placed in these little boxes any more.
What our biology tells us, goes against / contradicts so much of what exists in 21st century living.
We are no longer slaves to our biology, and more and more, people are even breaking from the social constructs. Men with long hair, men with ear rings, women with tattoos, women working construction (sidebar: Saw some hot hot hot chick today walking to a jobsite in steel toed boots, coveralls-with a bra top underneath- hardhat in hand, and looking fine yo), men as primary child care-givers, men getting spa treatments, women being the sole breadwinner...etc.
Much of what we've evolved and developed as a matter of biological / physiological necessity, is of little importance in 21st century. What we are left with are the mindsets we've constructed about those biological / physiological things, and the social implications those things 'should' have and ultimately what they should end up looking like on every person
Those are what create the gender roles. Gener roles, more now than ever in human history, are social constructs that are highly subjective. Anything so subjective, is non binding and therefore meaningless.
Men and women don't need to be placed in these little boxes any more.
What our biology tells us, goes against / contradicts so much of what exists in 21st century living.
We are no longer slaves to our biology, and more and more, people are even breaking from the social constructs. Men with long hair, men with ear rings, women with tattoos, women working construction (sidebar: Saw some hot hot hot chick today walking to a jobsite in steel toed boots, coveralls-with a bra top underneath- hardhat in hand, and looking fine yo), men as primary child care-givers, men getting spa treatments, women being the sole breadwinner...etc.
Much of what we've evolved and developed as a matter of biological / physiological necessity, is of little importance in 21st century. What we are left with are the mindsets we've constructed about those biological / physiological things, and the social implications those things 'should' have and ultimately what they should end up looking like on every person
Those are what create the gender roles. Gener roles, more now than ever in human history, are social constructs that are highly subjective. Anything so subjective, is non binding and therefore meaningless.
Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:55 pm
#17404- ChisaGod Of Boobs
- Location : Boston, MA
Biology doesn't dictate what we wear as clothing, or how we shape our hair, you're getting stuck on the surface aesthetics of cultural influence. I'm talking about the base attitudes we posses and our behavior instincts that are inescapable. We will always be slaves to biology, we're animals to the end.
For example: that restless feeling you get when you sit in a cubicle or desk, when you're not active, and you get that feeling of malaise, like you're missing something. That's an instinct fighting against modern society. We may change our behaviors, but that doesn't do anything to change our instincts.
Testosterone is POWERFUL, it drives us as men in many different ways when it comes to personality and thinking. It can drive someone to success through being competitive, to want to be that Alpha male in the room. Being a man, and raising a man, doesn't have anything to do with clothes, or hair, it has to do with attitude and dealing with the power that comes with it. If you ignore what comes with being what we are, you risk the successful development of a man.
For example: that restless feeling you get when you sit in a cubicle or desk, when you're not active, and you get that feeling of malaise, like you're missing something. That's an instinct fighting against modern society. We may change our behaviors, but that doesn't do anything to change our instincts.
Testosterone is POWERFUL, it drives us as men in many different ways when it comes to personality and thinking. It can drive someone to success through being competitive, to want to be that Alpha male in the room. Being a man, and raising a man, doesn't have anything to do with clothes, or hair, it has to do with attitude and dealing with the power that comes with it. If you ignore what comes with being what we are, you risk the successful development of a man.
Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:08 pm
#17523- CorvadeMember
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